On. I don’t understand why it always seems to be off by default.
Probably some bullshit legacy design choice from steve jobs
Low power mode all the time, damn phone doesn’t need to be doing fishy stuff in the background anyway.
On, because I want information, not art.
Exactly.
Number only, get out of here with superfluous symbols. I don’t need The Status Bar: Illustrated Edition.
A lot of people like to do extra work to ignore hard realities.
I don’t mind the one without the number, what i do mind is that SOME FUCKING ASSHOLE decided that no number is bettter and forces his FUCKING DUMBASS decision on everyone else.
SO FUCK OFF WIHT YOUR NUMBERLESS SHIT AND TAKE ALL OF FUCKING MATERIAL DESIGN WITH YOU!
Sorry. i have strong feelings about this topic, don’t know if you noticed.
My personal rage at the moment is this square time format with the two digit hour over the two digit minute. Obviously designed for a smart watch but Android decided it needs to be on the phones as well. I keep turning it off but every few updates it comes back – because the designers know better than me what I actually want.
Try needing Julian day. If you’re coding then strftime() has supported it since 1989. All you need is “%j” and there it is, with leap year handling, etc.
The end goal isn’t a good/flexible/powerful user experience for the person who bought the device; it’s a larger user base that can be marketed to The Machine for more money out the back end.
I don’t get the connection, could you elaborate?
Sure.
For a while now, if you needed the time from your computer, and it was running UNIX or a variant, you’d use something like gettimeofday() (it’s clock_gettime() now) which would hand you seconds since the epoch at midnight January 1, 1970 in UTC and microseconds/nanoseconds depending. You’d take the seconds, wash it through localtime_r to adjust for the local time zone, and you’d have a struct you could feed to strftime() for formatting.
So my beef with time formats, and what I presume ChickenLadyLovesLife’s beef is, is that when the time format is “wrong” for whatever reason, given the similiarity between the backends of modern time systems, it’s “wrong” for reasons other than technical limitations. You’ve got a count in seconds since the beginning of time, and a function that’s been around for decades that can do whatever stupid stuff you want. Military time, month printed out, day of week printed out, two character years, four character years, seconds, julian day, Doing something silly like day of year, hour of day, and am/pm (“%j %I %p”) is just as easy as something practical like a large fluffy timestamp, or a minimalist four characters military time (“%H%M”). The hard part was getting the time from the GPS or cell phone tower or wherever. The easy part is the time format. Windows also exists, and uses something similar. Modern programming with C++ or Python will have libraries (<chrono> and datetime, respectively) that work the same way, and both those examples use strftime() semantics.
So, if you’re unhappy with the way your device prints out time, the reason behind it isn’t the clock part of it, it’s the display part. There was some rationale on Android’s behalf for adopting the hour over minutes style, but it wasn’t because their available horizontal character limit dropped from four (five if you count a colon) to two. Maybe they can get more data widgets displayed around the time in a little halo? I don’t know, I don’t use android stuff anywhere. If it was apple I’d assume they did UX testing about half height characters and readability.
So, now to the “end goal” part of what I wrote before. The hard part is done and a solved problem, and most time formats work fine for what they do. tmux is giving me (“%H:%M %d-%b-%y”) which works fine, and my desktop environment (DE) is using (“%a, %b %d %H:%M”) which is fine. The other DE is using (“%b %d %H:%M”) which is fine. All perfectly usable, all used the three character representation of the month avoiding problems between dd/mm/yy or mm/dd/yy, and all of those are adjustable to an extent with two of the three kicking back to strftime() if I needed it. So what did android get when they paid developers to make the change to hours on top of minutes? Is there a study I missed that of a group of people who’d never seen a clock before and had no concept of time found the “%H\n%M” style more easy to read? If that’s true, then was it worth irritating the subset of people who are going to care about the change to pick up the other group? I personally don’t see a point in paying to make the change unless they’re expecting to make more money from it, which at the core of a lot of things in the world these days. Here’s something that worked fine, but now it’s being changed to work differently but no better.
Oh ok I thought they were some sort of weird person who doesn’t want to use the gregorian calendar…
I did a quick google search, and there’s a C++ boost library and a Windows API if you needed to do that. Might have a harder time finding english documentation about it, though.
This is true and real righteous anger. I love it.
It’s the one resource i have in abundance.
I should make a youtube channel.
Oh my god yes. Why the hell do I have to open the notification shade to see the number, especially when it gets low?
It shouldn’t be that hard to say, automatically show the number under a certain percentage. If it’s 10% I have around an hour left of medium usage. If it’s under 5% I have anywhere from 30 minutes to 5.
Just show me the number motherfucker, at least when it’s important!
I could have sworn mine does that - show the number when under 20% but I don’t see a relevant setting
Yeah it’s BS that you have to find detailed instructions online to turn of developer mode just so you could have the number
You should try GNOME!
I will pretend i didn’t read this comment, or i would have to explain to my doctor why my blood pressure exceeded the rating of a nuclear pressurized water reactor.
Number off is utterly useless.
It’s actually very easy to have the number off and still get full functionality.
I just made a 100 page booklet that shows each battery level graphic alongside the percentage, so when I want to check my battery level, I just pull out the book and flip back and forth until I find the right icon, and bam! I know my exact battery level in less than 5 minutes.
I just take a screenshot and upload it to Grok and ask it to tell me how much battery I have left.
Using enough power to run a house for a day (not the actual amount, don’t care) to interpret a bad graphic sounds like something Sam Altman would be proud of.
ugh, fine make it a flip book and I’ll commit
Wow. This is such an elegant solution!
counterpoint: these numbers are guesswork anyway. why pretend, you just want to know that it’s not red
I more want a guesstimate of when my phone will be red, so if anything a second timer next to my clock would be best.
…or a number that i can tune my own instincts to
I suggest wingding font
Counter counter point: I want to know whether it’s at 90%, 75%, 60% or 45% without counting pixels
Can you not just glance and see approximately? Can’t think visually, must convert to numerical?
Yes, I must have the exact number. I need some certainty in the chaos of this universe.
Yes, if I give the screen a lil’ kiss with my eyelids I can probably see that the icon has 8 pixels in height instead of 11.
That is not what I would call a “glance” though; I can, however, just glance and see approximately, by looking at the first digit of the number.
Why glance and see approximately when you can glance and see exactly?
Okay, give me an actual voltage reading, why not?
Unironically yes please, I’d root my phone for this
Battery Monitor - Available on F-Droid does exactly that, without having to root the phone.
Right now my battery is 87%, 3.984V, and 99.3⁰F
I don’t care until it gets to about quarter full, that’s when I check to see what actual percentage it’s at. I’m rarely on my phone enough to drain the battery on a normal day.
Hey get a load of this loser! Interacting with the real world! Ha! Everyone laugh! Hahahaha!
cries in terminally online
*everyone is crying and everyone alone because terminally online
Yeah, the only reason I would need the number always visible and not just visible on down-swipe would be if it ever ran out during the day. Probably would be necessary for people who stream videos a lot.
The only advantage of “number off” is it comes with extra anxiety for free.
Agreeeeeee
Number ON. Otherwise I have to guess the number.
This is like when cars went from oil pressure and temperature gauges to “idiot” lights. One let’s you see trends in situations and be prepared for maintenance, the other tells why your car broke down.
Oh man, you’ve solved a problem I’ve had since childhood, trying to figure out what Stephen King meant when he was writing about “idiot lights”.
I always figure he meant the dome light or something.
😀 yeah it made sense to me because I grew up in the changeover.
But here’s the Wiki entry.
The “idiot light” terminology arises from popular frustration with automakers’ use of lights for crucial functions which could previously be monitored by gauges, so a troublesome condition could be detected and corrected early. Such early detection of problems with, for example, engine temperature or oil pressure or charging system operation is not possible via an idiot light, which lights only when a fault has already occurred – thus providing no advance warnings or details of the malfunction’s extent.
It makes sense, and I think he also (or maybe only) used the term “dope light” which I figured had something to do with drugs.
Linguistics are so interesting.
Yeah, my car doesn’t have either of those and I was not happy when I realized it.
“A light will come on if there’s an issue.” 😡
I added some third party gages to my truck, just connects to the OBD interface.
No soft signals!!
If you have a newer car, it’s worse.
Your car can say check engine and turn off a lot of features in your car if you’re external thermometer in simply malfunctioning.
Your newer car will also tell you EXACTLY which sensors are showing bad data and whether it’s an electrical fault in the sensor’s circuit or implausible input, etc. Unfortunately you need a scan tool for it, but depending on the make you might find a decent free or cheap app to use a generic ELM327 or better, STNN1110 based OBD2 tool, that lets you scan all the modules rather than just OBD2 standard stuff.
So rather than playing parts darts or verifying every sensor by multimeter using known resistance ranges or putting up with bad fuel economy and low power… You just scan the thing and it’ll tell you.
I’ve owned cars from the '90s, '00s and '10s (2019 being the latest) and while my cars from '10s didn’t have sensor issues, I’ll tell you that I’ll take the complex and super hated '00s German cars over the early '90s one ANY day of the week. Super easy to diagnose.
My 2014 kangoo probably have like 3 sensors. I already changed an expensive turbo sensor and the one detecting if your seatbelt is making it beep for 3 minutes whatever you’d do before stopping every time I drive. I wonder if it’s rational to fix it, costwise.
Oh it has significantly more sensors than that, trust me.
As for the seatbelt sensor, honestly depends on the cost and how long you plan on keeping it. Without knowing your car, I can’t say for sure, but I suspect it’s a simple switch. The issue may very well also be in the wiring, or the switch could’ve broken loose or something (in which case you’d likely need the belt buckle receptacle thingy).
Personally I’m so annoyed by things like that, I’d fix it. It probably annoys you, and if you do end up selling it rather than keeping it, it’ll annoy the buyer.
Yeah I know, it’s just very very not modern, which is good, but it also breaks down all the time which is less cool.
The French know exactly how to make a car last 10 years and start breaking down after that unfortunately.
I honestly don’t know what would be a good replacement if you do need to get rid of it though. That type of van is a market dominated by the French to the point that “Berlingo” is almost a universal term for them IMO.
Yeah, as a swede I’m not used to the shaky quality 😅
The Berlingo is the Citroen version, and also an old french candy used for getting the bad taste of hot spring water out of your mouth (it’s supposedly good to bathe in and drink but often taste of sulfur)
Fun fact the gauges were also made to be idiot friendly. They report the average over a period (or similar) because if they reported the live reading users used to panic and think their car is breaking down seeing the gauge move.
Maybe my vehicles were old enough before that electronic averaging. 90s. The oil pressure and temperature would respond as the engine warmed, or as you revved it. Sitting in traffic on a hot day and you could watch the temp gauge climb, and then drop when you started moving.
I could probably watch the gauges for 30 minutes
Like for fun, or you mean without change?
All that information is available in the cluster lmfao.
There’s far more information that needs to be readily apparent to a driver than the oil pressure.
Oil pressure tells you if the engine is dying or if the Oil is breaking down or overheating. I’d take it over an RPM gage.
A lot of vehicles dont have it in their cluster menus these days.
I’d take it over an RPM gage.
Depends if it has a manual or automatic transmission. In a manual, I really want a tachometer.
I never look at the RPM gauge in a manual, just drive by feel and sound. But no doubt it’d be useful if you’re doing off-road driving?
just drive by feel and sound
And can’t do that with the oil…?
“knock, knock, knock, knock”… I suppose you can.
You check the oil before starting your engine and you would see there is an issue before it starts….
Or are you gonna sit here and pretend you stare at an oil gauge while driving so you don’t do damage your car, but you don’t check to make sure there is oil and what state it is in before turning it over…? And maybe pay attention to the road instead of a useless gauge.
You receive a fine, open the letter and it tells you that you were driving 20 km/h over the speed limit
“Oh shit, i thought i was goin at 50km/h, well under the limit!”
I’m a bit confused, we’re talking about RPM not speedo?
Oh my bad, i mistranslated tachometer lmao
I drive a 10 year old Vauxhall and it definitely does not have it. I wanted to know my oil temp and had to resort to a Bluetooth obd plug paired to my phone.
Removed by mod
How does that work…? That’s quite obviously not how you can get that information. The engine needs to be off and the vehicle in accessory for OBD2 ports to work, the oils not moving so there’s no pressure or temp involved.
How do you access your trip milegage information? The oils data is in that same menu.
OBD2 absolutely works while the engine is on, what are you smoking?
OBD2 primarily works when the vehicle is running. It can be used to tune some vehicles while they are on. What car do you have that doesn’t have the OBD port on while its running? It would be illegal in most states in the US.
I rest my case.
How so? Are you one of those people who don’t check their dipstick before driving? And rely on a gauge that can fail? Do you not look under you vehicle for oil once in a while?
Because what does a gauge tell you that a once over doesn’t? How crappy is your car that you need to stare at an oil gauge instead of being able to tell something is up and pull over and find the information in your cluster? Maybe pay attention to the road instead of staring at superfluous gauges dude.
Per wiki.:
The “idiot light” terminology arises from popular frustration with automakers’ use of lights for crucial functions which could previously be monitored by gauges, so a troublesome condition could be detected and corrected early. Such early detection of problems with, for example, engine temperature or oil pressure or charging system operation is not possible via an idiot light, which lights only when a fault has already occurred – thus providing no advance warnings or details of the malfunction’s extent.
Oil pressure is different than oil level. And a temp gauge and battery gauge tell you what happening.
As you drive your car you get used to what the normal mode is, and when it starts to deviate you get clues to what might be going on in your engine.
I.e. I’d start my truck and as it warmed up before the first traffic light, then on the trip to work it had a normal range for summer and winter. When I started to see temp gauge climb higher than usual, and then stay there a long time then suddenly drop super low , it tells you your thermostat for coolant flow is starting to stick closed, and probably needs replacing.
For oil pressure you see a normal range , but if temp is up and oil pressure drops you are overheating the engine and losing lubrication. Or if pressure suddenly went down it could be blocked d oil filter, or if it suddenly is fine it can mean the bypass has opened and you are no longer filtering oil.
Idiot lights don’t tell you any of this, only what has failed when it totally fails
All of that can told by looking at your oil, the gauges are just a lazy half measure lol.
The light is just so you know to check the gauges or your dipstick or whatever since they’re superfluous and always have been.
They put gauges in as the first idiot defence for people who can’t even check their vehicle before starting it. Since if you checked you oil, you would have noticed something was wrong before even starting it or needing the gauge.
And nothing is stopping you from checking the cluster when it’s safe to do so, the information is still there, it’s never needed to be there 24/7.
You also need to ignore the first part of wiki and cherry pick your information to get that take…
From the exact same wiki page, but further up….
A tell-tale, sometimes called an idiot light[1] or warning light, is an indicator of malfunction or operation of a system, indicated by a binary (on/off) illuminated light, symbol or text legend.
It’s telling you check your vehicle since you didn’t check the oil or something else before starting it, you know, like you should be.
People were ignoring the gauges until the light came on anyways, so why have it readily accessible when there other stuff?
Our 96 Sonoma that we just got in April, about a month later ended up having a massive oil leak. It first showed up on the oil pressure gauge.
One day, had to put 3 quarts in it! It wasn’t burning the oil, nor would it leave a puddle under the truck. So where the fuck was it going?
There was only one way to find out. Inspect everything with the engine running. Turned out the oil filter was ancient, clogged with what looked almost like tar, and basically pouring oil out from around the seal.
One ~$8 oil filter fixed that right up 👍
Point is, we would have never known just by checking the engine before cranking it, as the oil doesn’t pump unless the engine spinny spinny. Bonus points for having an actual oil pressure gauge, as we would have probably drove it bone dry until the engine locked up otherwise.
Oil level is not oil pressure, they are different issues.
You missed the whole part about trending changes and maintenance prediction.
Oil pressure shows you live, what is happening inside the engine. Its why Race cars , Drag Cars have giant gauges for oil pressure, etc.Yourportion you clipped from wiki, further proves my point. Its for idiots that didn’t watch their gauges.
Of course as a car guy you check oil level, coolant level, brake fluid level, but you want live data so you know what happening when engine is running. You can prevent failure before any warning light will.
Maybe you are a computer guy: do you want your PC shutting off to thermally protect itself without warning, or do you want to compare fan rpm and CPU temp trends to spot if you have thermal issues rising. Which could indicate thermal paste issue, or you have some other thing loading the system when you thought it was just your game.
People that can glean info from daily data trends know why gauges are important, even on industrialmachineas. Idiots just want a light to tell them something is already failing. It’s the difference between reactive maintenance and proactive maintennace.
Oil level is not oil pressure, they are different issues.
Oil pressure is directly related to the amount of oil in the system, too much oil, high pressure, not enough oil, too low. It’s slightly more complicated. But the gauges are there to tell you to check your oil anyways? So why skip not that unnecessary step and just check it…?
Idiots only need those gauges since they don’t check their oil or give their vehicle a visual once over. It starts with a visual inspection, if you’re too much of an idiot to do that, you need to rely on the gauges.
And again, the gauges aren’t just gone, they’re just moved off to the side since they aren’t needed all the time.
Using your race car analogy, you’re not driving a race car, or something where that’s needed immediately. You can dream and wish your car was that fancy I guess.
That live data is all a still available, you don’t need it 24/7 like a race driver. You’re conflating issues and points now. There’s nothing stoping you from viewing the cluster and getting your trends, is there? And those trends can all be found by doing a visual inspection anyways.
What’s more important than oil temp?
Speed is only relevant when there’s a cop around, otherwise im driving safely with the flow of traffic, the speed in mph is irrelevant. The RPM are important but I can hear it, don’t need the number really. But the oil, i need to know because i would have no idea if it was overheating until something already went wrong and requires an expensive repair.
Is your vehicle in state of constant disrepair where it’s leaking oil? You check the dipstick before you leave for your drive, and if it loses enough pressure during the drive to be an issue it will be noticeable. Either a lights gonna come on, it’s gonna make a smell, leave a drip under it, etc. There’s always physical evidence, the gauge does nothing that a petrip inspection won’t find.
And if you’re curious, spend 3 seconds finding the information in the cluster. It’s not something that’s ever had to be checked 24/7 while driving like you speed and rpms and other actual important information. It also prevents the dash from being clustered with superfluous data and have the constantly needed information Readily apparent. 3 gauges vs a dozen.
It’s not an issue for your owned car, but people lend cars out, rentals etc.
I get that, i just find that speed and rpm is even less relevant. Speed is just look where your driving that tells you what you need to know, and RPM is sound you can hear how hard your car is working.
number, that icon can be anything from %60 to %90
I must know precisely how anxious to be.
Takes too much space but is otherwise alright
On. Would prefer the bar not even be there and just have numbers only.
Its been a while but I think lineageOS used to have that option.
Used to? Still has!
“I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too.”
– Mitch Hedberg
And it’s not “80% wireless?” Hm.
I mean if you set it up like that yourself surely you know what the indicators mean
Noice
It does
Number. If I glance twice just a couple minutes apart, I know there’s an unusual drain going on and know to look for problem apps/processes I forgot to disable when done with them.
Also the number just feels like more direct communication to me than a graphic and is easier to make choices with. It’s not quite the same thing, but when I look at a clock I don’t want to see “5:30ish”, I want to know if its 5:28 or later so I can start my end of workday process.
So, number because spectrum.
