• Blackmist@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    2 hours ago

    Much like a Telltale video game, your really bad choices lead to game overs, while all your good choices lead to pretty much the same place.

  • ɔiƚoxɘup@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    15 hours ago

    Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn’t be better to be in the meat grinder. It would imbue concrete purpose. Head first though. That’d be nicer.

  • sunbeam60@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    8 hours ago

    Freedom comes with accountability. As an adult you’re free to make your own choices. But not all choices are good choices.

    The idea of freedom without accountability is something reserved for childhood.

  • AnDoLiN@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    13
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    19 hours ago

    The idea of free will is just a tool of tyranny. That’s the excuse they can use to persecute everyone who doesn’t “choose” to do the “right” thing. What the “right” thing is depends entirely on the cultural sensibilities of the time.

    Do you have insomnia or do you just “choose” to be lazy.

    Are you an alcoholic or do you just “choose” to drink.

    Do you genuinely enjoy exercise or do you “choose” to do it?

    Do you just value family or do you “choose” to prioritize it.

    You will always do the best damn thing that’s available to you and arbitrarily it’s either vice or virtue.

    There but for the grace of god go I.

    • NoWay@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      16 hours ago

      Even if free will is an illusion, its best to teach it. Otherwise you’ll have people going its not my fault I killed my father. I was prophesied to do so.

      • greedytacothief@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        8 hours ago

        I don’t know. To me agency and free will feel pretty separate. Events are necessitated by the past and the laws of the universe. But us choosing to do something is a part of that, and so are our values. I’m not sure if I would act any different if I believed in Compatibilism or free will, but I don’t think I would. How would life be any different?

        Unless you’re getting determinism mixed up with pre-destination

      • AnDoLiN@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        8 hours ago

        Nope.

        I have absolutely 0 desire to harm anyone. I don’t believe in free will… i don’t even experience myself as having it. But I have absolutely no true desire to hurt anyone. Maybe sometimes I get upset and I wanna tear someone a new one but i would never actually harm anyone. It’s just a passing feeling.

        But yeah, that other guy maybe did kill someone. But correct it ain’t their “fault”. Because there’s no such damn thing as fault. However there are CONSEQUENCES. Maybe that kid got bullied, they were alone, and the consequence is they shot up the school. I don’t need fault to recognize yeah that ain’t a good thing. i can just recognize a potential chain of events and ask oh hey maybe fucking let’s do something to address mental health issues BEFORE people get hurt. Because the consequence of that just might be less shot up schools. Or maybe someone actually did get born with a brain unlike mine that just is cool with hurting other people. Let’s find a way to address that. I don’t need to hate that person but I can say, yeah, maybe don’t let them around other people in the interest of the well-being of majority. give them as humane life as possible but don’t give them the opportunity to hurt others. That’s all. Fault has fuck all do with any of it. Like I said, just a tool of tyranny.

      • untorquer@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        11 hours ago

        Ah yes, just as one chooses to be gay or houseless. /s

        Whether or not free will exists is a fine philosophical debate but teaching it would be akin to doing the same with religion in school. Fine as part of a college course but not for primary.

  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    20 hours ago

    Does a poor person have the same free will as a rich person?

    Does a rat trapped in a maze have free will?

    Does a veal calf have free will?

    • edinbruh@feddit.it
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      10 minutes ago

      This is a “a tree falls in the forest” type of bitching.

      Do you, yes you the commenter, have free will while you are sleeping?

    • essell@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      19 hours ago

      Freedom no, that’s not a binary state.

      Free will? Yes. They have the capacity to react to their environment. The veal cow’s sadness and suffering are evidence of the free will to react.

          • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 hours ago

            You might train yourself to not hold on to suffering, and not react to suffering, but the suffering still happens. It’s not like monks are emotionless, unfeeling stone. They feel the suffering, acknowledge its presence, and then let it go like water off of a duck’s back.

            Which is all fine and good for them and their extensive training, but it’d be absurd to say that everyone has this capacity from birth.

        • essell@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          12 hours ago

          I’d say they are choices, just not concious choices.

          You can demonstrate this by noticing the way different people have different reactions to the same experiences or events.

          Easiest to see in people because of the greater awareness and agency but it applies to cows too because they’re smart enough to have individual personalities

            • essell@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              12 hours ago

              Yeah, totally.

              I laugh at my hayfever, through the sneezing and the coughing. My husband gets angry.

              So we have very different levels of “suffering” to the same experience.

              Good example, thanks.

                • essell@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  8 hours ago

                  I guess so. If you wanted to fake a reaction you could choose to, so the opposite must be true too, right? Choice happens at different levels, and most the choices we make happen at a level outside the conscious mind so quickly we wouldn’t register them as choices

    • untorquer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      11 hours ago

      Imperialism pointed inward is a huge part of the setting at very least.

      Damn i need to watch that again.