libs when june 4thers burn unarmed soldiers alive: the evil communists slaughtered a peaceful protest!

This specific lib, somehow: No, I dont believe they were violent. My beliefs are beyond observable fact. It does not matter whether something happened, just that I believe it or not.

I don’t believe those protesters were violent

Most weren’t violent hence the relatively peaceful evacuation of the square itself. That being said there are plenty of images of soldiers in dire straights at the hands of the more violent elements. Here is an English language display of some of the images very NSFW CW:Dead bodies, Violence, Blood, Weapons.

Neat! Your beliefs dont matter in the face of observable reality (CW: Charred body) though. Observable reality, first hand sources and pictures from the event quite clearly demonstrate the Chinese protesters were violent.

Surely that’s becuase I have fallen for western propaganda but by that logic you have fallen for chinese propaganda

Either that, or they’ve actually bothered to learn about the event and you haven’t. You can just go look at the first-hand sources and make your own conclusions.

so discussion basically ends here.

Or you can be a passive-agressive little twerp who cant handle the notion they might have been wrong about something, so instead of doing some simple research (if it can even be called that when all the sources are served up to you on a silver platter) you retreat to a little hugbox where your beliefs are never challenged and you are reinforced as being the cleverest little boy in all the land, I guess. Kinda pathetic though.

The “nonviolent protestors” were burning military members alive in their cars, lynching them, stabbing them. You’re so unbelievably stupid. Even Western sources clearly show that TSM was a failed color revolution started by capitalists.

Read a book.

Okay so for one I didn’t say there was propaganda, I said did the user with the china flag pfp plead ignorance, it would have verified that they fell for some kind of propaganda - namely some campaign aimed at restricting knowledge about the incident.

Right, and you thinking that that would be a possibility is the propaganda working on you.

A law permitting such action was in place.

I’m pretty sure lynching an army Choir and police officers; wildly firing guns, leading to several civilian casualties; attempting to affect regime-change at the behest of a foreign Intelligence Agency; and refusing any and all attempts at peaceful dispersal is quite illegal everywhere. Call me crazy, but I also think its pretty reasonable for such things to be illegal.

The last one is not true, even the CCP doesn’t deny there were at least 200 dead.

CCP

You’re so propagandised you can’t even correctly name the political party.

There was no “mass killing” because the term “mass killing” implies a wanton murder of defenseless civilians, which is not what happened. There were violent clashes between ARMED protesters (who were organised, funded and led by literal CIA-agents) and the Chinese military.

You can sympathise all you want, and there is plenty of actual critique to be made of the situation, but just because you sympathise with someone doesn’t mean you should suddenly present them as something they’re not. It weakens your case and does not aid in learning anything from a tragic event.

Anyway here’s a reading list for you to dismiss due to some ad hominem or other.

Definitely a contributing factor but I wouldn’t be so sure that it’s the core or main driver given the long history of orientalism etc.

Nobody cares what you find disheartening when you’re literally spewing imperialist propaganda about the #1 socialist nation on the planet.

“Human rights abuses” buddy youre a socdem, not a leftist. Fuck OFF.

BTW I find it disheartening when other leftists don’t seem to understand the concept of critical support, and act like they have to justify anything and everything a government does simply because they otherwise support it.

I find it disheartening when people talk out their ass on a subject they’ve only learned about from cultural osmosis, and they then think the pushback they receive is due to some doctrinal orthodoxy and not just because they’re talking out of their ass. People aren’t agreeing with your criticism because it is unfounded, not because it is criticism of China. If you posted something incorrect about the United States you’d likewise receive push back, and thats not because people here are nationalist democrats, but because that incorrect thing would likewise be unfounded.
You will see plenty of actual critique of China, especially its foreign policy, its trade with Israel, its actions during the sino-soviet split, it’s failure to curtail liberals, the regressive views of some of the old guard when it comes to queer people, its drug laws, and Im sure a bunch of other things as well. You will also see spirited discussion about things like the “great firewall”, state censorship, Dengism, and I dunno what else. The fact that things aren’t reduced to some simple binary “good/bad” is why you see this. Because, you know, things aren’t that simple.

I’ve seen a lot of pictures from the day both before and after the military intervention. I haven’t seen evidence characterising it as anything other than student-led protests, which of course were joined by other civilians. Do you have any?

Cowbee has already provided a wealth of information I would recommend starting with the article by Sun Feiyang and Roderic Day and delving into the sources provided.

BTW I find it disheartening when other leftists don’t seem to understand the concept of critical support, and act like they have to justify anything and everything a government does simply because they otherwise support it. This only drives away others who are open to e.g. opposition of NATO, but not willing to deny human rights abuses in support of that goal. Just seems hypocritical and like you don’t actually stand for any values instead of another flavor of tribalism and nationalism

This is a completely nonsensical and ridiculous reply to me simply pointing out that the protest was more complex than simply a student protest and that the violence was not so one sided and cartoonish but rather the result of clashes between rioters with such peaceful calls as

Don’t let any soldiers escape! Kill them all!

and the peaceful thoughts of CIA operative and student leader Chai Ling:

The students keep asking, “What should we do next? What can we accomplish?” I feel so sad, because how can I tell them that what we are actually hoping for is bloodshed

Who when asked:

Are you going to stay in the Square yourself?

Replied:

No, I won’t. Because my situation is different. My name is on the government’s hit list. I’m not going to let myself be destroyed by this government. I want to live

and the soldiers acting in place of riot police.

I am not at all against criticism of the handling of the events surrounding Tiananmen square in 1989 however that is not what you were doing rather you were merely obscuring the reality to allow yourself to apply easy blanket condemnation in place of real analysis and thought.

I recommend the Tian’anmen Protests Reading List. It was far more muddy than a student protest. There were workers protesting Deng’s reforms, liberal students protesting the socialists system, and CIA-backed operatives sparking discontent. On the day of June 4th, riots around Beijing clashed with the PLA, while the square itself was later evacuated peacefully.