• halvar@lemy.lol
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    2 hours ago

    I love how when Tiananmen square gets brought up they either had to plead ignorance, which would mean the propaganda has successfully prevented them from learining about it, or they could just endorse the extrajudicial mass killing of protesters and then somehow present that as a sane viewpoint.

    • folaht@lemmy.ml
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      55 minutes ago

      endorse the extrajudicial mass killing of protesters and then somehow present that as a sane viewpoint.

      Imagine the Jan 6 protesters staying during the insurrection when the US military comes in and then a subgroup of the 3%ers setting the military on fire because the US decided to send in the military unarmed and then the rest of the world calling the killings of these type of insurrectionists, extrajudicial mass killing of innocent protesters instead of rightful action against terrorists.

      There is legitimate criticism to what happened during the ‘Chang’an Avenue attacks’, just like there is to the US Democratic party handling of the insurrection.

      But saying the equivalent of “The Freedom Plaza crackdown was a mass arrest of innocent US civilians” is so far off what happened during Jan 6 2021, that even the title is wrong.

      • Horse {they/them}@lemmygrad.ml
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        56 minutes ago

        libs when june 4thers burn unarmed soldiers alive: the evil communists slaughtered a peaceful protest!

        libs when jan 6thers aimlessly mill about after trespassing on government property: these dangerous terrorists were seconds away from installing trump as god-emperor!


        • BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml
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          52 minutes ago

          libs when june 4thers burn unarmed soldiers alive: the evil communists slaughtered a peaceful protest!

          This specific lib, somehow: No, I dont believe they were violent. My beliefs are beyond observable fact. It does not matter whether something happened, just that I believe it or not.

      • halvar@lemy.lol
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        1 hour ago

        Okay so this is where we will obviously disagree, but I don’t believe those protesters were violent (the chinese ones not the fucking jan6thers - although look at those guys they stormed the capitol, assulted officers and they still all got a due process and all what a weird thing). Surely that’s becuase I have fallen for western propaganda but by that logic you have fallen for chinese propaganda, so discussion basically ends here.

        • 挂路灯人@lemmy.ml
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          40 minutes ago

          I don’t believe those protesters were violent

          Most weren’t violent hence the relatively peaceful evacuation of the square itself. That being said there are plenty of images of soldiers in dire straights at the hands of the more violent elements. Here is an English language display of some of the images very NSFW CW:Dead bodies, Violence, Blood, Weapons.

        • BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml
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          47 minutes ago

          Neat! Your beliefs dont matter in the face of observable reality (CW: Charred body) though. Observable reality, first hand sources and pictures from the event quite clearly demonstrate the Chinese protesters were violent.

          Surely that’s becuase I have fallen for western propaganda but by that logic you have fallen for chinese propaganda

          Either that, or they’ve actually bothered to learn about the event and you haven’t. You can just go look at the first-hand sources and make your own conclusions.

          so discussion basically ends here.

          Or you can be a passive-agressive little twerp who cant handle the notion they might have been wrong about something, so instead of doing some simple research (if it can even be called that when all the sources are served up to you on a silver platter) you retreat to a little hugbox where your beliefs are never challenged and you are reinforced as being the cleverest little boy in all the land, I guess. Kinda pathetic though.

        • chloroken@lemmy.ml
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          31 minutes ago

          The “nonviolent protestors” were burning military members alive in their cars, lynching them, stabbing them. You’re so unbelievably stupid. Even Western sources clearly show that TSM was a failed color revolution started by capitalists.

          Read a book.

    • BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml
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      1 hour ago

      Talk about propaganda working and then call the event an “extrajudicial mass killing”. Alright. Sounds like somebody blindly trusts capitalist propaganda. Go read the leaked cables. Or the other wealth of resources shared in this thread.

      • halvar@lemy.lol
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        1 hour ago

        Okay so for one I didn’t say there was propaganda, I said did the user with the china flag pfp plead ignorance, it would have verified that they fell for some kind of propaganda - namely some campaign aimed at restricting knowledge about the incident.

        Second, to say it was not an extrajudicial mass killing, you would have to believe one or more of the following:

        • A court with sufficient authority ordered the killing of protesters - I don’t know much about the chinese legal system but I doubt such a court exists.
        • A law permitting such action was in place.
        • There was no mass killing.

        The first two may be true (I don’t know if they are) but if so, then it’s probably not something you should support. The last one is not true, even the CCP doesn’t deny there were at least 200 dead.

        I mean you can symphatize or not symphatize with the protesters’ cause, but there is not really a situation in which what happened to the unluckiest of them is acceptable. Sure if they break the law apprehend them and put them in front of a judge (this exact solution is what I hinted at by using the term “extrajudicial” btw). 200+ (but more like 0+) protesters dead on the spot is not really justifiable under any system.

        • BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml
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          59 minutes ago

          Okay so for one I didn’t say there was propaganda, I said did the user with the china flag pfp plead ignorance, it would have verified that they fell for some kind of propaganda - namely some campaign aimed at restricting knowledge about the incident.

          Right, and you thinking that that would be a possibility is the propaganda working on you.

          A law permitting such action was in place.

          I’m pretty sure lynching an army Choir and police officers; wildly firing guns, leading to several civilian casualties; attempting to affect regime-change at the behest of a foreign Intelligence Agency; and refusing any and all attempts at peaceful dispersal is quite illegal everywhere. Call me crazy, but I also think its pretty reasonable for such things to be illegal.

          The last one is not true, even the CCP doesn’t deny there were at least 200 dead.

          CCP

          You’re so propagandised you can’t even correctly name the political party.

          There was no “mass killing” because the term “mass killing” implies a wanton murder of defenseless civilians, which is not what happened. There were violent clashes between ARMED protesters (who were organised, funded and led by literal CIA-agents) and the Chinese military.

          You can sympathise all you want, and there is plenty of actual critique to be made of the situation, but just because you sympathise with someone doesn’t mean you should suddenly present them as something they’re not. It weakens your case and does not aid in learning anything from a tragic event.

          Anyway here’s a reading list for you to dismiss due to some ad hominem or other.

          • halvar@lemy.lol
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            49 minutes ago

            First of all thanks for the reading list, I will read it just to spite you (and certainly not becuase I was already this close to asking you for one already). Alternatively you may believe you are a reverse psychology mastermanipulator.

            Initially the rest of this comment was a rant about how bad faith the comments of this community constantly are, but I realized this line will do just fine.

            • BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml
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              43 minutes ago

              Happy you read. I would suggest you go through @Cowbee@lemmy.mls comment history for any questions you might have. He has gone through this discussion so many times almost anything you might want to ask about has already been answered at some point.

              Initially the rest of this comment was a rant about how bad faith the comments of this community constantly are.

              People treat you as you treat them. When you speak on a subject despite being clearly uneducated, and you speak as though you are an expert, then it is quite understandable that you get treated like the smug dumbass you are behaving like. This is common to almost all online (and IRL) communities. You probably just do not notice it because you rarely utter heterodox opinions without some actual academic foundation to do so.
              People are especially likely to treat you poorly when you react as you do to pushback - that is to say with condescention, derision and a turning sophomoric attitude.

    • chloroken@lemmy.ml
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      60 minutes ago

      Wow, you are so fucking confused it is actually hilarious.

      You read the entire thread in question and ylh immediately side with the American. Fucking LMAO.