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Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works to Memes@lemmy.ml · 1 day ago

"G-giving aid to Ukraine to stop the murder of Ukrainians by a fascist Russian government is immoral..."

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"G-giving aid to Ukraine to stop the murder of Ukrainians by a fascist Russian government is immoral..."

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Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works to Memes@lemmy.ml · 1 day ago
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cross-posted from: https://piefed.social/c/politicalmemes/p/1900803/g-giving-aid-to-ukraine-to-stop-the-murder-of-ukrainians-by-a-fascist-russian-governmen

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  • davel@lemmy.ml
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    24 hours ago

    Only a healthy diet of imperial core propaganda media could bring you to this analogy.

    Previously:

    • Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU
    • Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: audio | transcript
    • Counterpunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup
    • BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
    • Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
    • Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
    • The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
    • The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
    • WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
    • Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
    • The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
    • openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
    • Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
    • Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
    • Consortium News, 2023: The West’s Sabotage of Peace in Ukraine Former Israeli Prime Minister Bennett’s recent comments about getting his mediation efforts squashed in the early days of the war adds more to the growing pile of evidence that Western powers are intent on regime change in Russia.
    • Internationalist 360°, 2022–2024: History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV
    • NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide

    Previously:

    NATO expansion:

    • George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
    • Orinoco Tribune, 2022: Former German Chancellor Merkel Admits that Minsk Peace Agreements Were Part of Scheme for Ukraine to Buy Time to Prepare for War With Russia
    • Al Mayadeen, 2023: Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements
    • Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
    • Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine

     
    NATO in general:

    • The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World
    • CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance
    • Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world”
    • Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism
    • Gabriel Rockhill, 2020: The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It

    Previously:

    Honest question from a non-communist, based on your reply here. Does one need to support Putin to be a Marxist?

    In a word, no. In a few more words, support for Russia (not Putin, as historical materialists don’t subscribe to great man theory) is only a partial, temporary, tactical one, in the context of imperialist liberation. Russia is still a capitalist state, though, so it’s a two stage strategy: first liberate colonized bourgeois states from colonizer states, and second revolution within those liberated bourgeois states.

    Russia is an interesting case: it has already liberated itself from the post-Soviet “shock therapy” neocolonizers. This occurred during Putin’s administration, which is why he is especially hated by the US. So now the support for Russia is in the context of keeping the colonizers from recolonizing it, and supporting Russia to the extent that it helps other states liberate themselves. But Russia isn’t trying to “liberate” Ukraine, at least not all of Ukraine. It’s trying to resolve the genocidal attacks on the people of the Donbas, and it’s trying to resolve the imperialist military expansion at its border.

    • Anarcho-Bolshevik@lemmygrad.ml
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      19 hours ago

      tl;dr

      • davel@lemmy.ml
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        19 hours ago

        I swear they never do.

        • Calfpupa [she/her]@lemmy.ml
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          22 minutes ago

          You got my one laugh out loud for the day, thank you for that and the in depth sourcing. How do you have time for that and code dev‽

    • orc girly@lemmy.ml
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      23 hours ago

      Yeah, I don’t love the Russian government but I still believe it’s cowardly that the only way liberals can vilify Russia is by having the memory of a goldfish and being obtuse about geopolitics, the wars with Ukraine were completely avoidable and so was the ethnic cleansing of Russian Ukrainians, and by ignoring that regular Ukrainians themselves want to end the war. It’s particularly frustrating that they pretend Russia is the most villanous nation, too, as if the US wasn’t orders of magnitude worse and for a far longer span of time, including regime changes, invasions and sanctions that killed millions of people and impoverished so many more, and as if the US had no responsibility for the proxy war in Ukraine or the extremely cruel shock therapy all over former socialist states.

      • davel@lemmy.ml
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        23 hours ago

        That they were already BlueAnon-pilled by Maddow & friends before the war started sure hasn’t helped.

        • IT Pro: Cambridge Analytica models were exaggerated and ineffective, [UK Information Commissioner’s Office] claims
        • Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
        • Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
        • Washington Post: FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
        • Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
        • Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
        • Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
        • Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
        • MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
        • Matt Taibbi: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
        • Aaron Maté: Under Trump, the CIA is still covering up its Russiagate fraud
        • Matt Taibbi: Note on New Trump-Russia Disclosures Thanks to explosive new document releases, the Russiagate hoax is now exposed, commencing a new era that will be about accountability for the guilty
        • Matt Taibbi: No Doubt Left: Russiagate Was a Cover-Up
        • Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away The cynical con the Democratic Party and the F.B.I. carried out to falsely portray Donald Trump as a puppet of the Kremlin worked, and continues to work, because it is what those who detest Trump want to believe.
  • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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    24 hours ago

    I’d love for you to explain how domestically produced vietnamese resistance to French, Japanese, and American imperialism is materially the same as western powers fighting a proxy war with Russia at the expense of Ukrainian lives.

    Would also love to hear the political analysis that led you to believing Russia is distinctly fascist rather than capitalist.

    • Billy_fuccboi@lemmy.world
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      19 hours ago

      So Vietnam wasn’t a proxy war?

      • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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        18 hours ago

        Not in the way the war in Ukraine is

        • Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.worksOP
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          18 hours ago

          Please, by all means elaborate.

          • narwhal@mander.xyz
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            3 hours ago

            They were both proxy wars. But what were they fighting for? In the cold war, usa wanted vietnam to remain a colony to extract profits, but ussr wanted an ally in the region instead. nowadays usa want ukraine to become a vassal state to destabilize its geopolitical adversaries in the region, specifically russia, much like israel is used against many middle eastern nations. russia has no virtuous intention other than self preservation, and they are not a superpower anymore, so they used the tools they had which was a military operation to disarm ukraine.

            • Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.worksOP
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              2 hours ago

              The USA, along with the rest of NATO, wants Ukraine to remain independent, and not fall into Russian hands.

              Remember, the US is just one nation providing military aid to Ukraine. Even Australia and New Zealand are contributing.

              • Calfpupa [she/her]@lemmy.ml
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                19 minutes ago

                Why did you mention USA, USA[Economic Vassal], and USA[Economic Vassal] for a total of three times?

              • QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
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                2 hours ago

                The USA, along with the rest of NATO, wants Ukraine to remain independent

                Lmao

                Remember, the US is just one nation providing military aid to Ukraine.

                Mark Rutte leader of NATO said it himself that NATO is just means for the US to project power.

                Even Australia

                Even “CIA Base pretending to be a country” is contributing. They literally disappeared a PM for not being thankful enough for pine gap.

          • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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            17 hours ago

            Listen, I’m not answering you rn because you sound super fucking smug and it’s annoying. Also you haven’t actually offered a detailed opinion of your own and it sounds like you are just waiting for me to give mine so you can criticize it instead of offering something of substance yourself. Answer my original question and I’ll back to you when I’m sober and it isn’t a few past midnight.

            • Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.worksOP
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              17 hours ago

              Your original question asks me to refute an unfounded claim you’ve made based on no evidence whatsoever, just what you want to believe is true.

              And I’m not playing that silly game.

              • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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                8 hours ago

                I was giving you my personal perspective and asking that you develop yours beyond the meme. I am genuinely curious why you think this way.

        • Billy_fuccboi@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          So what’s the difference?

    • Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      24 hours ago

      Oh dear.

      Do you have any idea how much military aid the USSR and China provided to Vietnam?

      • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.ml
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        24 hours ago

        Yes. go on

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