• Pissed@lemmy.ml
    2·
    7 hours ago

    Oh I believe it without a doubt but I also believe that this fueled excessive paranoia and plenty of innocent people were screwed over, the cold war was fucking stupid, and the fact that capitalist countries still can’t stand any country being socialist is also fucking stupid but the paranoia that the siege creates can definitely have negative consequences for people living in socialist countries and IMO is a huge source of the authoritarian nature of socialist States more than there being any intrinsic authoritarian nature to socialism, I’ve seen the same thing happen in small socialist orgs.

    Edit Exploiting this paranoid aspect was also a way the FBI used to wreck revolutionary groups, the black panthers come to mind.

    • DeathsEmbrace@lemmy.world
      2·
      2 hours ago

      That’s because capitalism guarantees a certain powerful dynamic by capitalists and socialism removes the power from the select few of the population. To put it simply the power given to capitalists by capitalism is threatened by socialism which is why capitalists hate livable wages or anything that allows the sheep workers from having peace. It makes you less reliant on capitalists for everything and they can’t accept that. To make workers simple to understand they want a dependent relationship between everyone and everything and capitalists or capitalism. Kind of like a parasite but you should already know that by now.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.mlOP
      41·
      7 hours ago

      Systems generally develop the processes to defend themselves, so you’re correct about excess happening. However, this is in the context of siege. It’s important to recognize context.

      • Pissed@lemmy.ml
        11·
        6 hours ago

        And I did, it’s also important to not white wash everything because it harms the cause more than it helps nothing caused more disillusionment in socialism than people being betrayed by the party which promised them a utopia, I have family who were socialists since the 1890s, and the first betreyal happened when they got sent to the front in WW1 that was already enough for some people to be like fuck this shit.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.mlOP
          5·
          6 hours ago

          People were not “betrayed by the party,” and socialists haven’t promised “utopia” though. I’m not white washing everything, it’s important to get an accurate understanding of genuine successes and genuine faults.

          • Pissed@lemmy.ml
            11·
            5 hours ago

            What I’m telling you now is part of my families personal history as ordinary workers who supported the Social Democratic party in the late 19th and early 20th century People did feel betrayed by the social democrats when they supported the first world war. I know that my family members thought that universal suffrage and the ability to vote for a party that said they had the workers best interests at heart would usher in a better world. For them there definitely a utopian aspect to socialism. After the first world war my great grandparents were like fuck that shit, they felt betrayed and didn’t bother joining the communist party anymore.

            Did some edits just to make my writing less shitty.

              • Pissed@lemmy.ml
                11·
                5 hours ago

                Lol, the Bolsheviks were a faction of the Russian social democratic party. I’m not Russian.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.mlOP
                  5·
                  5 hours ago

                  The bolsheviks supported pulling out of the war, and did. I’m not referring to non-communist parties, this meme itself is about the USSR. I’m not sure why you’re bringing in social democratic parties.

                  • Pissed@lemmy.ml
                    12·
                    5 hours ago

                    You do know that communist parties grew out of social democratic parties right? Seeing as my family members weren’t Russian it was kind of irrelevant for them what the Bolsheviks were doing they were sick of war, they were just were trying to scrape food together because at the end of the first world war people in continental Europe were starving and the idea of waging a class war for the radical section of the party that sent you into the war in the first place just seemed tiresome.

                    Anyways what I’m getting at is I kind of understand why so many people are cynical about socialism since for some people its not some crazy new radical idea, they’ve been burnt by politics before.