Your posts keep getting downvoted and I wonder where do they all come from? I wouldn’t expect Lemmy.ml to be high on the CIA’s manipulation list.
Idk about .ml but grad and hex make MSM occasionally, and it is what you’d expect.
Most westerners, even people who otherwise have good positions vis a vis Palestine and other foreign policy issues, have a very David vs Goliath view of politics where they reflexively support the small side against the big side. Russia is a big country invading Ukraine, a smaller country. Russia is more powerful than Ukraine. Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth (even when the meek in question are a US backed far right country that venerates its nazi heroes like Bandera). This is idealism, but it is widespread and organic. It’s only astroturfed in the way that support of capitalism is also astroturfed.
Pictured: fake news according to western “leftists”:
They’re not fake, just besides the point. We shouldn’t purity test a country that’s being invaded, regardless of whether it’s Palestine or Ukraine. Granted Ukraine has less reason for radicalism than Palestine does, but they make up that with CIA interference.
Ukraine loses the war within the next 24 months since it has outlived its usefulness, the US pivots to the Pacific, and Europe doesn’t have the capacity to support it. What do you think happens when these reasonable moderates wearing Black Suns and Tottenkopf patches, armed to the teeth by NATO with any kind of weapon you can think of, are no longer fighting Russia?
Ever hear of operation Cyclone?
You say that as if NATO is giving Ukraine any more than the bare minimum weapons it needs. This ain’t Israel.
Okay so what? They’re getting javelin missile launchers, tanks, drones, and who knows what else. Do you think the Azov Battalion would otherwise have access to that level of weaponry?
!RemindMe 9/11 2: Ukraine in the Membrane
We shouldn’t purity test a country that’s being invaded, regardless of whether it’s Palestine or Ukraine
An absurd thing to say when one of the countries is being genocided with western support and the other is run by actual seig-heiling nazis who were doing ethnic cleansing also with western support. To equivocate between the two is nonsensical, It’s the geopolitical version of equivocating between kicking in a door as part of a robbery and kicking in a door as part of a hostage rescue operation. But if you really must reduce everything down to black and white principles about what is and isn’t acceptable, try this one: There is never a good reason to side with nazis.
Also, I curse whoever came up with the thought-terminating cliche that is “purity testing”. In cooking and chemistry, in metallurgy and biology and a million other things, you need “purity testing” to achieve anything, because it turns out that making a habit of disregarding basic standards consistently leads to failure and disaster. I don’t cook with dirt, I don’t build out of bubblegum, I dont make tea with metal shavings and I don’t give critical support to genocidal goose-steppers.
I dislike the way “purity test” is used to shut down any expectation that we can or should demand better from our leadership. However, when you start purity testing a country collectively like this and ignore the realities of what a defeat or victory would mean for the people living there that’s not good.
The Nazi battalions are not the entirety of what Ukraine is as a nation.
The Nazi battalions are not the entirety of what
UkraineGermany is as a nation.Yeah they’re only in charge, hardly anything important. But you’re right, I have changed my mind and now think that ten years of government-sponsored ethnic cleansing in eastern Ukraine is an acceptable price to pay for keeping the savage Muscovite on his toes
Germany didn’t have a Jewish president.
This isn’t to say that absolves Ukraine of all it’s issues, but it’s not Germany.
Germany didn’t have a Jewish president.
You are saying that ethnicity gives you an automatic unbreakable political convictions? Good, i’m very glad all the Slavic neonazis are the figment of my imagination, it would be impossible to support ideology that literally wanted to exterminate their people! Not to mention certain Jewish prime minister straight up publicly whitewashed Hitler of holocaust.
I honestly believe that ethnic minorities in Eastern Ukraine are 100% better off under the current Russian military occupation than they were under the NATO backed fascist government that came to power via coup in 2014. I also honestly believe that just about everyone in Ukraine will undoubtedly be better off if Ukraine concedes that territory to Russia as soon as possible rather than continue to throw away lives into a meat grinder to stall an inevitable conclusion.
I don’t disagree, but I don’t think it’s 100%, and the people there should have a say in the matter. If the people there wanted that they could easily have hopped the border, the fact that they didn’t voluntarily do so means something.
The ones who did in Crimea by voting to join Russia weren’t recognized internationally. In general though, if you’re in the middle of Ukraine and your family has lived there for centuries, even when Western backed fascists take over the country and start shelling you in the civil war, would you easily make the decision to leave for Russia instead of staying and fighting?
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It’s always neat to see how their propaganda reflects their fears and what they see in their daily life way more than what we see. Like the actual neo nazis part. If they were actually in the US they’d see all the far right neo nazis comfortably gobbling up the republican party position that - hey maybe russia isn’t so bad.
It’s only in Russia where they have massive amounts of neonazis directly opposed to the Russian government, who then decide to fight for ukraine. It’s massive amounts of RUSSIAN neonazis they are mad about. Because Russia has a massive neonazi problem.
They tell on themselves with their propaganda constantly.
Do you think the Republican Party supports Russia? Do you really think the right wing of American Empire supports their own enemies?
Yeah I was equally shocked by the revelation. Wait, didn’t they start the whole Mccarthism thing? But all the good ol boys out there think strongman putin is neat and based for bashing the gays or something. Every talking head on the right has repeated this for years. ‘We should try to be like putin.’ Tucker Carlson even went and interviewed him. Did you watch the part of that special where tucker goes to a Russian grocery and gawks at Aldi style shopping carts with the quarter locks? Tried to make them out to be the pinnacle of human invention. With the wrinkled brow, he was confounded that russia could possibly be this perfect. Dumbass has never been to an Aldi.
Tucker went over there because it wasn’t like putin was going to come over here right? Right? Oh wait, republican president, putin is in the US. He’d get arrested if he went to literally half of the world, but ya this normal.
What do you think MTG meant when she said “No funding shall be made available to Ukraine unless restrictions on ethnic minorities, including Hungarians in Transcarpathia, right to use their native languages in schools are lifted”?
Not a rhetorical question. Please decipher and understand each word in that statement. I guarantee she doesn’t. But you should try to understand the statement. That’s not something an American would even begin to have an opinion on, let alone leverage it against ukranian aide? Let alone from MTGs mouth? I mean come on who told her to say that be real with yourself right now lmao.
Then of course there’s the low level grifters like Tim pool and Laura loomer getting caught taking money for spewing russian talking points. Was kirk caught up in that? Maybe not, it just feels right.
There’s been a lot of Americans that defect to Russia. They’re all from the right. Either LARPers sent to the meat grinder or weirdos chasing the trad life just to be sorely disappointed. Anyone heard from Derek Huffman yet? He’ll probably end up like Russell Bentley
The targeted propaganda and disinformation has been massive and they’re out in the open about it. Republicans regularly share RT clones even though their main site got nuked. Margarita Simonyan will get on russian TV and straight up brag that they’re spinning up thousands of fake accounts to target Republicans and any republican I meet still scoffs at the very idea like it doesn’t happen.
If you’ve never experienced it, I dare you to install telegram and join some conservative channels on there. You think that’s not a pipeline? Don’t go no true scots-ing Republicans now, they’re all over that shithole. It’s freedom, baby.
Most certainly a giant heap of it across the board has also been some weird ass behavior of supporting russia to own the libs. Support for Ukraine had to become a partisan issue for them, because everything the left does is wrong. They’ve been buttered up by russian propaganda for years so saying russia good just felt right I guess.
Equally as shocking as ALL of this combined was the fact that the one republican that blew past it all and consistently wished nuclear rain against russia from the very start was Lindsey fucking Graham. What
First of all, you have no clue what you’re talking about if you think the “left” supports Ukraine. Bureaucratic neoliberal technocrats in the Democratic Party turning on the money printer for Zelensky are not the left. The left doesn’t exist in the US, at least not in a way that gives it agency about what foreign countries receive funding to do the US’ bidding. And if the PSL got in power just to give Nazis in Ukraines guns for them to do terrorism with for 20 years after this war ends and they think Europe betrayed them, the PSL would be doing a very silly thing (but it is in character for the Dems or Republicans to pursue this strategy, it’s just a repeat of operation Bloodstone, except this time they’re supporting the Nazis from day 1 instead of only after the war)
Secondly, you’re looking at statements by pundits and influencers to figure out what the strategy of your enemies is. That’s really not very smart. If you were analyzing the collapse of the American Empire 100 years from now looking back, would you look at what Tucker Carlson was saying about Putin to discern what the state was trying to accomplish with its foreign policy? No, that’s silly. You would look at what foreign policy papers from the Heritage Foundation, the Brookings Institute, the Strategic Studies Institute, and whatever other think tanks were putting out. You’d look at hearings with strategists from those think tanks, military command, and economists. And what they have to say right now is pretty clear: they want to squeeze Ukraine for all it’s worth against Russia. They have no love for Russia.
The posturing from right wing influencers that you’re talking about is essentially just culture war nonsense. They call the war in Ukraine a Democrat war as a culture war tactic, but that doesn’t actually reflect reality. I mean, FFS, John McCain was at Kyiv during Euromaidan shaking the hands of the nazi leader of the coup! To confuse the rhetoric of false promises to their base that they would stop funding Ukraine to put America first for anything other than a boldfaced lie, just like their lies about locking up Hillary or going after big tech, is a mistake that you make for thinking the spectacle is real.
Finally, that’s a funny MTG quote, it is pretty clearly something someone fed her and I agree that I don’t think she could keep the names of Hungary and Transcarparthia in her head for more than 15 minutes. Which actually makes it pretty easy to answer why she would say it: one of her nazi staffers was telling her to implement one of the line items from some report from the Heritage Foundation/some other RW think tank outlining concessions to extract from Ukraine in pursuit of a nebulous goal? I honestly don’t get what Russia would get out of it if Ukraine ethnically cleansed Hungarians and Transcarparthians, so I don’t know if you actually meant that Russia was getting her to say that.
Top: hmm perhaps decades of empowering nazis has led to nazis being in power in Ukraine
Bottom: your entire comment about how everyone pointing out the above is a secret Russian
What socialists are saying is that Russia and the US are actually what they say the are: in opposition to each other. Liberals are the weird conspiracy theorists who believe that the Republican party is full of secret Russian traitors. At best, one may say that the GOP is more hostile to Europe than the liberals, which inevitably leads to Russia being in a stronger position with Europe left to fend for themselves (which the GOP is only comfortable with insofar as they can get Russia to split from China), while the liberal strategy has been to isolate Russia and drive them closer to China but hope that Europe is a strong enough ally to beat both.
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Hollywood isn’t real life.
Why are you convinced that your moral enemies are also your political enemies?
And why is it fascist?
Russia being messed up doesn’t contradict the meme at all. People in the imperial core can be happy, every time comrades in Russia (or Ukraine) have a success against their government and their oligarchy. But the best thing every anti-imperialist can do, is fight the imperialists they can actually fight: the ones in their own country. If you’re in a NATO country, that means your priority should be to fight NATO and the US oligarchs who benefit from it’s constant wars all over the world. If workers on both sides just continue to fall for the propaganda, they’ll never stop killing each other.
I’m not just randomly claiming, that this strategy is what works best. Have you heard of Lenins revolutionary defeatism? It’s the method, that made the revolution possible.
Have you heard of Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht? They were both killed for their anti-war stance and their commitment against national-chauvinism. Liebknechts famous line was: “the main enemy stands at home”, by which he meant the national oligarchs and imperialists profiting from the war.
So many reasons this is funny
-You apparently believe in evil, like a child
-You don’t know what fascism is
-Theres no way you can define the word dictatorship
-You seem to think that someone on the internet who doesn’t believe that Enemy Country is literally Mordor is part of “the problem” (what problem? The problem of other countries existing in a way that displeases you?)
Overall I give it a 2/10, deeply stupid and infantile, try throwing in a Star Wars reference next.
Bro they have literally had the same man in power for the last 25 years. The elections are far too one sided to be legitimate. They enforce heavy military propoganda. They have wealthy oligarchs while they working class is barely scraping by. And they have been trying to forcefully take land from other countries for years at the expense of citizens of both sides. Please explain how everything I said isn’t true, or would you rather just hurl empty insults again instead and make yourself look even more ridiculous
Bro they have literally had the same man in power for the last 25 years.
Wrong, they have a federal government system that you naively think is “one guy runs everything” like a marvel movie: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Government_of_Russia
The elections are far too one sided to be legitimate
According to some random on the internet? Then what does that say about, for example, Ukraine, where opposition parties have been openly banned and elections have been canceled altogether? What possible reason is there to support such a government?
They enforce heavy military propoganda
What does it mean to “enforce heavy military propoganda”? You mean like we have at NFL games, only scary and foreign? Literally what do the thought-terminating cliches you’re using even mean, and how do they not apply to us?
They have wealthy oligarchs while they working class is barely scraping by
So like…they’re a capitalist country, but scaaary and foreign?
And they have been trying to forcefully take land from other countries for years at the expense of citizens of both sides
Other country, singular, because that’s how warfare works. I’m not sure if you realize that’s how warfare works, but it is. It’s weird of you to just say countries plural as if you’re not expecting anyone to fact check you. In fact, that’s kind of how you guys talk about any country the US tells you to hate in general: the strongest possible existential condemnation in the vaguest and most
possible terms.Please explain how everything I said isn’t true, or would you rather just hurl empty insults again instead and make yourself look even more ridiculous
Sorry, I don’t entertain the vague fever dreams of de facto nazi supporters who hold childlike beliefs about good and evil that they selectively apply to entire countries. Start talking in concrete terms if you want to be taken seriously, or would you rather just lean on empty cable news-ass buzzwords again and make yourself look even more like a hysterical dorkass?
For the record you seem to believe I support America, I don’t.
He maybe doesn’t have the control of the entirety of the country, but has been the central figure for 25 years. That simply doesn’t happen legitimately in a country that isn’t basically a utopia, and we all know Russia is far from that.
No I meant other countries, they have been manipulating the border along Georgia as well, just not as forcefully.
I urge you to watch some of their military parades and festivals, they are straight up dystopian.
By all means, keep deluding yourself into thinking Russia is somehow on the right side of this, just don’t be surprised when the world keeps get worse.
The fact that my original comment was straight up deleted speaks volumes about this community. I was banned from reddit for speaking out against ultra conservatives (in America specially) so I came here. Turns out this community is literally no better than the other side
Putin gained mass support because he sided with the nationalists that kicked out the western imperialists that were looting the remnants of the former USSR’s industry. The 90s were a period of violent reaction, devastation, and incredible poverty for the whole of Eastern Europe. The liberals want to capitulate to the west, and repeat the 90s. The nationalists want to retain the status quo, where the wealthy Russian capitalists retain their hold but without handing over everything to western imperialism. The leftists want socialism again, and this number is rising dramatically:
Trying to understand complex geopolitical issues through a frame of “good vs evil,” rather than a class analysis, pushes you into all forms of absurd contradictions. You need to understand, in Russia hardly anyone supports the liberals, so the nationalists are seen as the best thing by most people outside of the growing Russian left. That’s why Putin keeps winning elections.
Final tidbit, leftists are far better than fascists, and it isn’t even close to comparable. The idea that we are “no better than fascists” just because we disagree with your analysis is wrong, the left stands for progress and the end of western imperialism, we support the working class, not the imperialists and the capitalists.
Back in the USSR
You realize these things are true in Ukraine, in some cases more than even in Russia? And Ukraine was doing ethnic cleansing in the civil war for 8 years before Russia invaded, too, so if you want to apply this childish “I support the enemies of countries that do evil things” view instead of materialism, you could just as easily land on the conclusion that supporting Russia against fascist (vibes based definition) Ukraine is correct.
If you did a materialist analysis and try to figure out what the forces at play are, which classes stand to gain from different outcomes, and why the ruling class interest of Western imperialist states are aligned the way they are, you’d probably arrive at a much better conclusion though.
I have tried to do my research and inform myself about the current situation. I am aware Ukraine has its issues, but I have not come across anything that justifies the current conflict. If you have evidence otherwise, i earnestly beg you to share it, and I will consider it as unbiasedly as I can
Here’s a report from CNN showing what the Ukrainian government was doing to ethnic minorities in the east during the civil war, 6 years before Russia invaded.
