I get it in a world that has shifted dramatically to the right, the left has been squeezed and compressed and pushed and pushed towards more extreme values to counterbalance that.
But the death of an empire seems to me like the equivalent of shooting your own foot to forget about your toothaches.
And more importantly, that infamous quote comes up:
“You fool! As if it matters how a man an empire falls down.” To which his companion replies: “When the fall’s all that’s left, it matters a great deal.”
Nobody was pushed into anything - they chose it. We can watch videos of people being killed in Tiannamen Square, while they choose to believe that nobody died there. Yes, people “push” back, saying that people died there, and look here’s all this proof, like here you can talk to this person who was there even… but in return they stuck their head into the sand and close their eyes and ears and believe whatever fantasy they wish.
And then work to overthrow America, along with the rest of the Western World (the USA was only a high priority due to resources, but all nations nearby and especially adjacent to Russia would be nice plump targets if that were possible…).
Exactly like MAGA in the USA, the various “issues” (like anti-abortion, anti-trans agenda, or pro-states rights, except when they feel otherwise then it’s anti-states rights, etc.) don’t matter nearly so much as hollowing themselves out to allow themselves to be controlled by those at the top. Tankies will debate-bro you endlessly, using logical fallacy after logical fallacy forever, but at the end of the day somehow none of the facts actually matter, and it devolves simply into advancing the agendas of nations that aren’t the least bit leftist in reality. Like the fall of Western civilizations, though at this point I halfway expect the narrative to change to supporting the USA as it works to become Russia’s ally.
You make a very salient point. If Vladdy somehow manages to get Donny to completely become USSR aligned, I’m sure the hostility towards the west will die down significantly.
Don’t worry, I just typed USSR as I have this image that that turns on one of those hi-whining incandescent red lights from the 80s in some control room in Kalingrad.
The fight has gone on since before Reddit banned the tankies who went on to make Reddit 2.0 tankie boogaloo, Lemmy. https://lemmy.world/post/29072279
They want to destroy Western civilization, we want to be off Reddit, it’s nowhere close to an even trade, but then again Reddit does suck fairly bad…
The hostility would still remain in that case towards the EU. Watch/read 1984: the sheeple absolutely must have a target upon which to focus their rage, otherwise they might turn inwards and notice how bad their own lives have become under fascist policies.
Every one of these platforms seems to come with a spez bolted on. And in fairness, it took me a solid three years on reddit before I understood the dangers of spez.
You know what they say, when it’s free, you are the product target.
Dessalines is right in the sense that nobody owes anyone a platform on the Internet - if you truly want free speech, then spin up your own instance and go for it, while others are free to defederate from you. Dessalines is no common troll like Cowbee or Diva.
Dessalines is also correct that no space is a monolith. Unfortunately, ML protects the trolls who come over to LW & other communities, following people around, stalking them and harassing people without their consent, which they seem to feel is justified due to the righteousness of their cause. Dessalines themselves is the real deal - they offers software to the entire world as FOSS, which is worthy of RESPECT! Unfortunately, those Lemmy devs + ML mods (same people) protect others who are not as ideologically consistent, nor pure, which exposes some level of hypocrisy.
One of the best examples that I saw of this was a situation where a ML mod told someone that they wanted to shoot and kill them, then when pressed about it doubled and tripled down still further (if it is still there, I believe that this is the OG link). That behavior is NOT okay… and the ML mods should never protect someone like that.
Except that they did, bc it turns out that bad things are only bad when the other side does them, though totally okay when the good side does them. i.e. ML (and lemmygrad.ml even more so) is tribal, where Russia, China, North Korea (and perhaps the USA at some point?) can do virtually no wrong, while everything done in a Western civilization is somehow wrong and bad - like my dudes, even a stopped watch is correct twice a day, but they refuse to acknowledge goodness until they know WHO did the thing, then phrase their response accordingly regardless of WHAT was done. Exactly like MAGA.
But ML is not a monolith, and it’s possible to have good conversations there, plus possible to have bad conversations outside of there. It’s just that on the whole, due to it being an echo chamber the situation trends towards the people being more frustrating to try to have reasoned discourse with than the opposite. You could therefore send me a link to a “good conversation” without that working to change my mind, because in general I find that instance not worthwhile.
As you now see for yourself. Honestly I’ve lost all hope to discuss politics with people online - it can be worthwhile with people IRL, and very rarely with people online, but mostly you just get banned from wherever you try, and it’s simply not worth having to dig through all the trolls (trash) to get to something meaningful. Especially for such complex topics.
I agree what you said about a new account - it is 10,000% perfectly fine for whatever instance to do whatever they want, but I can do as I please myself also, and I have extremely negative opinions about places that present themselves one way but then in actual reality are a whole other entirely different way. If they are going to reject any strong criticism of fascist expansionist empires such as Russia then it would help if they actually… you know, said that, out loud?
And since they refuse to, then I want no part in discussions with such people. If you look at what they do rather than what they say, then content housed on that instance looks an extremely awful lot like Russian propaganda. Whether it actually is or not, who can say, but either way, why should I choose to expose myself to all those lies?
Btw check out slrpnk.net if you are looking for a true leftist space.
I get it in a world that has shifted dramatically to the right, the left has been squeezed and compressed and pushed and pushed towards more extreme values to counterbalance that.
But the death of an empire seems to me like the equivalent of shooting your own foot to forget about your toothaches.
And more importantly, that infamous quote comes up:
Nobody was pushed into anything - they chose it. We can watch videos of people being killed in Tiannamen Square, while they choose to believe that nobody died there. Yes, people “push” back, saying that people died there, and look here’s all this proof, like here you can talk to this person who was there even… but in return they stuck their head into the sand and close their eyes and ears and believe whatever fantasy they wish.
And then work to overthrow America, along with the rest of the Western World (the USA was only a high priority due to resources, but all nations nearby and especially adjacent to Russia would be nice plump targets if that were possible…).
Exactly like MAGA in the USA, the various “issues” (like anti-abortion, anti-trans agenda, or pro-states rights, except when they feel otherwise then it’s anti-states rights, etc.) don’t matter nearly so much as hollowing themselves out to allow themselves to be controlled by those at the top. Tankies will debate-bro you endlessly, using logical fallacy after logical fallacy forever, but at the end of the day somehow none of the facts actually matter, and it devolves simply into advancing the agendas of nations that aren’t the least bit leftist in reality. Like the fall of Western civilizations, though at this point I halfway expect the narrative to change to supporting the USA as it works to become Russia’s ally.
I wish you had told me this a week ago (:
You make a very salient point. If Vladdy somehow manages to get Donny to completely become USSR aligned, I’m sure the hostility towards the west will die down significantly.
Don’t worry, I just typed USSR as I have this image that that turns on one of those hi-whining incandescent red lights from the 80s in some control room in Kalingrad.
The fight has gone on since before Reddit banned the tankies who went on to make Reddit 2.0 tankie boogaloo, Lemmy. https://lemmy.world/post/29072279
They want to destroy Western civilization, we want to be off Reddit, it’s nowhere close to an even trade, but then again Reddit does suck fairly bad…
The hostility would still remain in that case towards the EU. Watch/read 1984: the sheeple absolutely must have a target upon which to focus their rage, otherwise they might turn inwards and notice how bad their own lives have become under fascist policies.
Yeah. I managed to get the confession out in writing from their General this weekend. That was very sobering to read, and then the Davel dude did his predictable thing.
Every one of these platforms seems to come with a spez bolted on. And in fairness, it took me a solid three years on reddit before I understood the dangers of spez.
You know what they say, when it’s free, you are the
producttarget.Dessalines is right in the sense that nobody owes anyone a platform on the Internet - if you truly want free speech, then spin up your own instance and go for it, while others are free to defederate from you. Dessalines is no common troll like Cowbee or Diva.
Dessalines is also correct that no space is a monolith. Unfortunately, ML protects the trolls who come over to LW & other communities, following people around, stalking them and harassing people without their consent, which they seem to feel is justified due to the righteousness of their cause. Dessalines themselves is the real deal - they offers software to the entire world as FOSS, which is worthy of RESPECT! Unfortunately, those Lemmy devs + ML mods (same people) protect others who are not as ideologically consistent, nor pure, which exposes some level of hypocrisy.
One of the best examples that I saw of this was a situation where a ML mod told someone that they wanted to shoot and kill them, then when pressed about it doubled and tripled down still further (if it is still there, I believe that this is the OG link). That behavior is NOT okay… and the ML mods should never protect someone like that.
Except that they did, bc it turns out that bad things are only bad when the other side does them, though totally okay when the good side does them. i.e. ML (and lemmygrad.ml even more so) is tribal, where Russia, China, North Korea (and perhaps the USA at some point?) can do virtually no wrong, while everything done in a Western civilization is somehow wrong and bad - like my dudes, even a stopped watch is correct twice a day, but they refuse to acknowledge goodness until they know WHO did the thing, then phrase their response accordingly regardless of WHAT was done. Exactly like MAGA.
But ML is not a monolith, and it’s possible to have good conversations there, plus possible to have bad conversations outside of there. It’s just that on the whole, due to it being an echo chamber the situation trends towards the people being more frustrating to try to have reasoned discourse with than the opposite. You could therefore send me a link to a “good conversation” without that working to change my mind, because in general I find that instance not worthwhile.
As you now see for yourself. Honestly I’ve lost all hope to discuss politics with people online - it can be worthwhile with people IRL, and very rarely with people online, but mostly you just get banned from wherever you try, and it’s simply not worth having to dig through all the trolls (trash) to get to something meaningful. Especially for such complex topics.
I agree what you said about a new account - it is 10,000% perfectly fine for whatever instance to do whatever they want, but I can do as I please myself also, and I have extremely negative opinions about places that present themselves one way but then in actual reality are a whole other entirely different way. If they are going to reject any strong criticism of fascist expansionist empires such as Russia then it would help if they actually… you know, said that, out loud?
And since they refuse to, then I want no part in discussions with such people. If you look at what they do rather than what they say, then content housed on that instance looks an extremely awful lot like Russian propaganda. Whether it actually is or not, who can say, but either way, why should I choose to expose myself to all those lies?
Btw check out slrpnk.net if you are looking for a true leftist space.