• SolarPunker@slrpnk.net
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      10 hours ago

      I suppose you are both referring to USA politics: it seems clear that dems contains many different souls but I wouldn’t call AOC or Sanders right-wing, even here in Europe where we actually have real left.

      • Saymaz@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 hours ago

        The left starts at anti-imperialism and anti-capitalism, buddy boy. Reformists are still right wing.

      • Spectre@lemmy.mlOP
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        10 hours ago

        The left starts at anti-capitalism. Anything other than that is right wing

        • FosterMolasses@leminal.space
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          5 hours ago

          And this take is why Trump won. Congrats.

          The right wing starts at fascism. Or so it has evolved to.

          Vote against fascism next time.

          • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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            1 hour ago

            Trump won because Hillary&co deliberately elevated his campaign in the misguided belief that he woukd be easier to beat

          • SippyCup@lemmy.ml
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            2 hours ago

            Trump won with a sliver of majority support in a handful of states because of electoral college fuckery. Every state he lost could have voted against him 10 times harder and he still would have won.

            The swing votes he won in those few states were people fundamentally worried about the same things we are. Childcare, healthcare, cost of living, and keeping their jobs. They had two choices, a man who had a plan, and a woman who said “look how not that guy I am!”

            Trump won because he’s mastered the grift and the Democrats dropped the fucking ball, again.

          • m532@lemmygrad.ml
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            2 hours ago

            The right wing might start at fascism but if you look even further to the right, there’s neoliberalism.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            And this take is why Trump won. Congrats.

            Anything but enthusiastic complicity with genocide and capitulation to republicans is “why trump won” according to the wing that would rather have trump win than tell netanyahu no ever.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            4 hours ago

            The right wing starts at capitalism. Fascism is capitalism in crisis, forcing austerity domestically when the fruits of imperialism dry up. Trump won because the democrats failed to meaningfully answer the problems of capitalism, alienating their base, and allowing Trump’s base an easy win, it wasn’t because of leftists sitting out of an election.

        • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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          8 hours ago

          Don’t Sanders, Mamdani, and AOC call for socialist reforms in the US?

          • Spectre@lemmy.mlOP
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            7 hours ago

            Reformism is not anti-capitalism. Reforms are just nicer capitalism. There will still be capitalism and imperialism but people just get a bigger slice of the imperialist pie until the ruling class decides to take the slice away.

            • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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              1 hour ago

              “People get a bigger slice of the … pie until the ruling class decides to take the slice away”
              Isn’t that just the same with all systems?

              • NuclearDolphin@lemmy.ml
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                10 minutes ago

                The state is the mechanism through which one class exerts its dominance over the others.

                Bourgeois states are the enforcement arm of capital. When it offers improved conditions, it is merely a carrot to prevent you from taking actions that may jeopardize its power.

                In a similar vein, proletarian controlled states can do the same, but the concessions go towards capital and the day-to-day ruling is on behalf of the workers.

                If we want concessions that cannot be revoked, we must overthrow the bourgeois state and replace with a workers state. We cannot reform our way into a society where capital does not have near complete power.

        • SolarPunker@slrpnk.net
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          10 hours ago

          Left and right are relative to the actual political spectrum of the subject. There are different approaches to anticapitalism, centrist on the left-wing wants to implement social politics to improve welfare, this doesn’t make it socialists.

          • Spectre@lemmy.mlOP
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            9 hours ago

            Your notion is a very post modernist ideology of absolute relativism, which is an idealist unscientific notion. Socialism starts at anti-capitalism. Anything pro-capitalist is not left wing because everything falls under liberalism which is not a left wing ideology.