• BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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      3 hours ago

      There is no claim that the West could make about China that you wouldn’t believe as an article of faith

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      19 hours ago

      No, China is not commiting genocide. The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective’s Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is explicitly pro-PRC, but this is an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims.

      I also recommend reading the UN report and China’s response to it. These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does.

      Tourists do go to Xinjiang all the time as well. You can watch videos like this one on YouTube, though it obviously isn’t going to be a comprehensive view of a complex situation like this. Even with all of the real complexities, though, nothing material measures up to claims of genocide.

      • stinky@redlemmy.com
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        19 hours ago

        https://www.globalr2p.org/countries/china/

        While the OHCHR assessment (Aug 31, 2022) does not indicate genocide, its authors are being pedantic. The findings you cited indicate crimes against humanity including reproductive-rights abuses. (click “UN report and China’s response to it” then scroll to the bottom to download the PDF) They might not be lining them up in the streets and shooting them, but they ARE trying to exterminate them, and treat them as less than human in the process. Whether the report authors use the word “genocide” is immaterial.

        Read the report yourself, you’ll see that what’s happening is unchecked criminal, inhumane activity directed at the Uyghur population and other predominantly Muslim ethnic minority communities in Xinjiang.

        • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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          4 hours ago

          the OHCHR assessment (Aug 31, 2022) does not indicate genocide

          Great, done, stop typing. Everything else is just blatant Motte and Baillie

          • stinky@redlemmy.com
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            19 minutes ago

            This is incorrect I’m afraid. The OHCHR assessment should have indicated genocide. I suspect that admitting you’re wrong is difficult for you, but in this case it’s patently clear for the reasons I stated above. This difference in terminology is pedantic; what’s important is the suffering and persecution that’s going on in China, and you’ve failed to address any of it. I wish you the best of luck in your journey, but I have no more time to donate to you. Have a day.

          • balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one
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            4 hours ago

            So your argument is “they are just dehumanizing and trying to exterminate a group of people, and I’m chill with that”? A bold position.

            • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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              3 hours ago

              No, that’s very obviously not “my argument”, but I wouldn’t expect you to be above lying and putting words in my mouth.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          2 hours ago

          No, this is wrong, the PRC is not exterminating Uyghurs. Uyghurs were, as ethnic minorities, exempted from the one child policy, and now have better access to things like IUDs for proper family planning. The PRC is not trying to exterminate Uyghurs, your claims are fantastical.

        • Armand1@lemmy.world
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          17 hours ago

          Reading your source, it sure sounds like genocide.

          That said, it seems like a summary rather than a detailed report and I can’t find the source in the page.

          The other people responding to you are saying “did you read the statement by the perpetrators of the genocide denying it?” Sounds like a rather silly statement.

          Can’t really weigh in on this but on the face of it it does feel like tankie behaviour.

          EDIT: I’ve now skimmed the UN Human Rights report and it’s definitely genocide. The only possible claim against this is that all of their information is false, which seems unlikely.

          I’ll also add that the first response above linking to the UN source I’ve seen copy pasted elsewhere. That doesn’t necessarily mean much but, yeah.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            17 hours ago

            Are countries not allowed to offer evidence to clear their name of allegations against them? Are independent groups not allowed to create detailed compilations of resources that go more in-depth than the UN report or China’s response? I don’t think it’s a bad thing that leftists offer counter-evidence to western allegations. China isn’t just saying “no lol” in their response, they provided data and evidence backing up their case.

            In a legal battle, do you only listen to evidence from the side accusing the defendant? Only skimming only the accusation seems like you genuinely aren’t interested in the truth of the matter and only want an excuse to agree with the accusation.

            As for copying and pasting, yes, I reuse the same comment for the same low-effort claims, because it’s still useful. I’m not going to bespoke craft a new response with the same evidence and support for essentially the same claims.

    • stinky@redlemmy.com
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      19 hours ago

      I’m tired of the crying too.

      “Leftists” just complain about Liberals not accomplishing anything despite having achieved nothing themselves. They’re not even on the ballot lol. They’re not funded or organized. And they have all this contempt for everyone else. I wouldn’t want to be associated with them because they’re all such whiny unaccomplished losers.

      • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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        4 hours ago

        They’re not even on the ballot lol.

        Your daily reminder that Americans don’t think foreigners are real

      • Nemo's public admirer@lemmy.sdf.org
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        11 hours ago

        If you are USAmerican, didn’t your govt actively kill/silence/sabotage the leftists?
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

        You have no successful left because it gets actively killed by your govt. Your govt is even planning to send its military/national guard into the cities in your country where “liberals” are in power, right?

        And regarding doubts on the claim on Xinjiang pushed by your govt, it looks like them manufacturing consent against their enemies rather than caring about the issue, because they are actively supporting genocide in Gaza.
        With the history on the invasion of Iraq, why wouldn’t people doubt it?
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

        • stinky@redlemmy.com
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          24 minutes ago

          There are plenty of mainstream, public leftists. Some of them run for official positions. Many of them express their opinions online with full name and credentials.

          You’re trying to give the leftists an excuse for not succeeding, but it’s their fault, not their government’s.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        19 hours ago

        Leftists are currently in charge of the world’s largest economy by PPP, and are bringing forth an alternative to dying capitalism. The left in the US Empire was systematically crushed and murdered during the 20th century, and only now are we beginning to establish the cohesion and unity we once had in the early 20th century.