• TankieTanuki [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      18 days ago

      A problem is that rhetoric is dismissed out of hand simply because it’s agreed with by a US enemy state actor, even when it doesn’t originate from a state at all.

      Too many liberals follow the axiom “if Russia believes X, then X must be false” and don’t even bother to examine the veracity of X.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      18 days ago

      Anyone pushing their views is propaganda. Propaganda isn’t always a bad thing, propaganda can be good, like antifascist or pro-communist propaganda, or it can be bad, like fascist propaganda.

      • Sanctus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        18 days ago

        Pretty sure manipulating people is bad. States entrap resources, populations, and say this is ours and this is how you have to be. Governments the world over are mostly bad. Especially the powerful countries. Ml can downvote me if they want. But if the east or west were either so good our world wouldnt be a shit hole filled with war. Its pretty obvious. The capitalists need to not exist anymore, the emirates need to give up their monarchies, and Russia needs to let go of Putin. There could be peace. People with power just love power more.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          18 days ago

          This is just idealism, though. Power isn’t a self-driving end, profit is what’s important in capitalism, and is why socialist economies achieve better metrics even with lower resources. What you’re doing right now is “propaganda,” in that you’re trying to convince me (or others) of your views.

          • Sanctus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            18 days ago

            It was just called thoughts before governments weaponized it. A government or state, like a corporation, will always act in its own best interest. Which is why they should not exist. We will continue to be inundated with propaganda and divided until they are abolished.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              18 days ago

              No, propaganda is just the intentional dispertion of information to spread views you align with. Non-government groups do propaganda all the time. Secondly, governments are only extensions of a class, they aren’t an independent entity, and as such are thoroughly enmeshed and dependent on the mode of production.

              • Sanctus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                18 days ago

                Whatever you define them as they are hierarchal structures used to secure wealth and resources from the main bulk of the populace. Hierarchies cannot exist in a truly equal system.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  17 days ago

                  They aren’t used to secure wealth and resources from the working class, they are extensions of the ruling class in society. In socialism, that’s the working class, and the state oppresses the bourgeoisie and defends from outside attack. There’s also administration, which is a necessary hierarchy even in anarchist systems, as production at a large scale requires managers, just like battlefields need footsoldiers, tacticians, and strategians.

                  • Sanctus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    17 days ago

                    Anarchist systems do not require hierarchy. Even if they require some management that can be easily achieved without creating a hierarchy. This has been fun. Thanks ML Brigade. And they are used that way, hence the state of the world with the minority ruling and having all, the wealthy “elites”.

            • comfy@lemmy.ml
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              17 days ago

              A government or state, like a corporation, will always act in its own best interest.

              I can’t think of any human structure, or any person, who doesn’t tend to act in their own perceived best interest. The issue is when self interest contradicts mutual interest.

              Self-interest is an important concept in understanding why capitalist corporations are consistently antisocial and why most states act against their citizens, but self-interest isn’t a reason in itself.

              It was just called thoughts before governments weaponized it.

              Government propaganda definitely predates the modern English language. e.g. Roman Empire

              • Sanctus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                17 days ago

                You never have anything to say that means anything. My number 1 troll. Cowbee could convince the world of what they believe which is cool. You would come along and ruin it afterwards.

                • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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                  16 days ago

                  And you treat Cowbee with compete disrespect, wasting his time without actually taking in anything hes saying. Seeing that, why the fuck would not just call you a fuck head.

          • Saymaz@lemmygrad.ml
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            17 days ago

            These type of motherfuckers have no problem with the self help guru scams or redpill influencers selling courses people into believing lies but they always draw the line at a communist telling a centrist, “Fascism is bad actually and diversity is good for everybody.”